I had already purchased my ticket for the Big Big Train show at Whitley Bay, yet through fellow TPA member Chris Simmons and his contacts, I managed to obtain permission to do an interview on the day of the gig. And very kindly indeed, lead vocalist Alberto Bravin agreed to give up some of his time, in the middle of a busy touring schedule, to chat to the TPA. So here is a transcript of the full interview, which took place in the foyer of The Playhouse theatre, shortly after the band has finished their sound-check.
Colin Smoult: It’s been six months since the release of The Likes Of Us. Are you happy with the general response to it?
Alberto Bravin: Absolutely, yeah. We were really proud about the album. So having this response from the people, it’s great. Everybody seems to like it in one way or in another. Some people prefer the longer songs.
Colin: Well, to be honest, I’m fairly new to the band. I only started listening to the material about six months ago, and I actually think that this is my favourite album out of all the Big Big Train albums. It’s really good. I think there’s a certain vibe about it. It feels consistent from song to song. I think the album length, the song choices and the order they are in, everything just flows very well indeed.
Alberto: And actually there were no songs left out of the original demos versions, or from the recordings. So all the material, it’s there.
Colin: So have you started work on the next album to some degree?
Alberto: Yeah, we have some demos going around on the ‘Cloud’.
Colin: Because obviously with it being so many members living in different countries that’s how you work?
Alberto: Yeah, we are working like that. Everybody can input on songs, sometimes it can be a full song with arrangements and everything. So if someone has a really clear idea of how the song should sound, sometimes with very complex arrangements. Sometimes it’s just like a demo with guitar & vocal. Sometimes it’s maybe a theme or an idea.
Colin: Like ideas that get fleshed out later on, get passed around and people say “hey, I think I can do something with that”.
Alberto: Yeah, we can put something in a folder and then everybody can listen to the folder, and having ideas. And of course, it’s really important to work that way with being in Italy, in Sweden, in Norway and the UK and the US. So it’s really difficult to work together. But then, when we have all the material organized in some way, then we go to the studio together and we record the album together, as we did for The Like Of Us.
Colin: Did you know much of the material of Big Big Train before you joined the band?
Alberto: Yeah, I was a fan of the band, absolutely.
Colin: So for writing for the last album, did you feel like your song-writing sort of fell into the same kind of similar pathway?
Alberto: Well yes, in a really natural way.
Colin: So it wasn’t like a conscious decision, I’m going to make it sound like Big Big Train?
Alberto: Absolutely no. I knew how Big Big Train sounded, but actually it’s my kind of writing and my kind of music. I love that kind of music. And the most important thing with the Big Big Train are the songs. Before me, and now with me, we are trying to write good songs that you can put in the progressive elements. You can put in the difficult stuff later.
Colin: It’s often a youth thing where people want to show off how clever they are on their instruments, and show off their abilities. But later on I think as people mature, it’s it becomes more the focus on the song.
Alberto: Everything, everything needs to be done for the song. That is our rule. It needs to benefit the song and benefit the lyrics. Yeah. So there’s no “oh, I have this chunk of a crazy instrumental thing, just put it in there”. No, it’s not like that, no.
Colin: Another thing I want to mention is about the band members from different countries. Before, Big Big Train had a sort of an image of being very English. And now Greg is the only Englishman left in the band, obviously Claire is Scottish. So do you think the band, I personally do, that it has a little bit more of an international appeal and vibe?
Alberto: Yeah, I think so. I think it was already there, because I arrived and I was the Italian guy. But Rikard was there, Claire was there, and then Oskar joined, and NDV was there from the US. But now I think that Big Big Train will always be a ‘British band’ in some ways.
Colin: Because it’s intrinsically imprinted in the music?
Alberto: In the past, not always, but majority of times, the songs were written about, I don’t know …British facts or historical facts?
Colin: Yes, like stories about people, places & social history.
Alberto: Now with The Likes Of Us it’s really more personal. It’s more feelings, it’s more personal experiences that actually, it’s like a universal thing. So everybody can identify in the songs or in the concept of the songs. So I think sometimes with being Italian, of course, I don’t know the British folk. Yes, I have no idea. I’ve heard something, but I don’t know the stories, the background.
Colin: But you’ll bring something on board that nobody else will bring on board because of your background.
Alberto: Absolutely, yeah.
Colin: Which was again with Oskar and again with Nick, and everybody brings something different to the table.
Alberto: Yeah, yeah, everybody.
Colin: So really, at the end of the day, if you’ve got all these different members in from different places it must make a broader musical spectrum to choose from?
Alberto: Yeah, we can have like every kind of influence in the sound of the band. Absolutely.
Colin: So with touring, you finally got to go to America. I know that it was planned before, then Covid happened. How was the US tour?
Alberto: Oh, fantastic! I mean, I’ve toured the US other times in the past with PFM. So I knew how the US audiences can be. But now I was there with my band. And that’s another experience.
Colin: Performing songs that you had written.
Alberto: Yeah that was sweet. Still weird to this day.
Colin: People singing along with the lyrics as well?
Alberto: They are, they are. We played the Cruise To The Edge. I remember we played the first song, and of course for the majority of people there, it was their first opportunity to see Big Big Train live. And it was like it was a little myth, because Big Big Train never played live that much.
Colin: Because in the past it was quite sporadic, with often just a handful of dates, and in the UK alone. So all this time, I suppose the albums have been available on import in America, and they had a fan-base over there dying for the band to play?
Alberto: So, on the cruise we played the first song and it was like the theatre just exploded. I was like, wow! Incredible, incredible feelings.
Colin: So for that tour, I’ve heard Greg mention before that the set had been tailor-made to contain a lot of the older material, because that audience never had the chance to experience it live. But now with this tour, you get to put in a lot more of the last album, which I think is fantastic.
Alberto: It was like a well thought-out choice for the US. And I think it was the right choice because we don’t have hits as such, but we have a few songs that are well-known to the fans. So we said, this is the first time that we are performing in the US. I think they deserve to give them what they want. To listen to East Coast Racer or A Mead Hall In Winter, those kind of songs that people know and are familiar with. Now we have more freedom to play the new material. People are now used to the new album so they know the new material.
Colin: You’ve had European dates as well.
Alberto: We did Loreley, Night Of The Prog. And we played the Cropredy festival, it’s like a folk festival. That was crazy, it was a huge place. But it was outside of our comfort zone because the majority of people there didn’t know who we were.
Colin: Because you were on a multiple-band line-up?
Alberto: It’s more of a folk-ish kind of vibe, Fairport Convention and that kind of stuff. But I loved it. I mean it’s even better. You go there and you just do your show.
Colin: Obviously you’d probably like the band to tour more, and perhaps Italy as well?
Alberto: Well, we would tour all the year (says laughing).
Colin: It’s the financial logistics of you having to make enough to cover the costs.
Alberto: Yes, you need to be really careful with this. But we would love to play more in Europe, of course. We would love to play South America, Japan, or go back to the US of course. We’ll play at the Cruise next year, so it’s a chance to go back there.
Colin: Reading about the history of the band, they really didn’t start playing live until around 2015? That seems very late in the game.
Alberto: The first tour I did with the band was only like 3 gigs because there were still some Covid restrictions, so it was really difficult to organise. But then we did the other tour, and with me in the band, Big Big Train played more shows than in all of their past. So it was really fun. Yeah, they never played live because I think they were really focused on the recording side of things, and being in the studio. When I’ve talked Greg about this, they never thought about it, just to play live.
Colin: It was sort of around the time when Nick came on board. So do you think he was a factor in maybe pushing him in that direction?
Alberto: I think so, because of course he was more used to touring and doing that kind of stuff. So I think that helped a little with that. Then they were starting to plan, and it was like a big tour. Then the Covid thing, then David, and then all the things… yeah it was devastating. I know it was devastating because of …
Colin: …what you’ve heard, It was very sad indeed.
Colin: But on a more positive note, I think the band have scored big time with you. Because I think have a fabulous voice. It’s really good. So I don’t think that you are really filling anybody’s shoes as such. I think you’re cutting your own path here like, definitely.
Alberto: I mean I’m trying, the goal is to have respect, respect to David’s legacy. He was such a performer and had a really, really strong voice. Now over the last three years that I’ve been learning the songs, I’ve understood how hard it is to sing those songs, because he was so good and it’s really difficult. But the thing is that I’m not a clone.
Colin: You’re not a sound-alike…and I like that. I like the fact that they could have gone for a sound-alike, someone with exactly the same range, similar tone, but they didn’t. And much respect to them all for not doing so.
Alberto: I think it was a clever choice, not because they chose me (said laughing), whoever it would be. I think it was a clever choice not to have a clone or someone that has the same characteristics of the voice of David. I have a completely different background, and the thing that I have more experience in the live situation, helped again. You just move the wheel and just let go, I think we can play live now. We can do the tour. We can do the things, yes we can.
Colin: The band you’re currently touring with is slightly stripped down. Sometimes you’ve gone out with the full 4 -piece brass band, and sometimes you’ve had an extra guitarist, and I know in the past they’ve sometimes had 2 dedicated keyboard players. So the stripped-down sound, is it much different on stage?
Alberto: Well I’ve played with 2 guitarists and the full brass. In the past they’ve had two keyboard players, two guitarists, full brass, there were like 13 people in the band. Because they were a studio band, so to replicate what was on those albums, all those layers & layers.
Colin: I think you’ve already answered my next question, you don’t use any backing tracks at all?
Alberto: No, no. There are a couple of songs that we have backing tracks which is just some percussion. Because of course if everybody is playing, and I’m doing the tambourine and Paul Mitchell, the trumpet player is playing a little percussion. But there was like a couple of songs that the percussion really needed to be more.
Colin: But you didn’t really feel you had cheated? It just enhanced the music for that particular song.
Alberto: Yes. And sometimes having a click track just with the timing, sometimes it’s good. And I think we are using it for maybe two songs. And it’s just there’s nothing in there. There’s no vocals, there’s no…. I mean, people can do whatever they want. There is no problem. Actually at the beginning, we thought to use more backing tracks because now we don’t have the brass section. We don’t have the other guitar player. But then we said, if we don’t have them, let’s play… without them.
Colin: Allowing that little more space in the mix can be a good thing.
Alberto: Absolutely. And actually I’m coming from also being experienced as a audio engineer and a front-of-house guy, I did FOH for years and years.
Colin: So less is more?
Alberto: In the live situation, less is more, absolutely. Because again, we’re going back to the song. The people are there not to listen to the little background chimes in the song. They are listening to the song. So you need to deliver… the song! You will have the super-fan that says “oh wait a minute, in the second verse you didn’t do that bit” (said laughing). But on the other side, it’s really cool, and it’s really, really fun to change the arrangements, keeping the lines, but maybe sometimes we had like, I don’t know, a really important trombone line. We don’t have a trombone player, so we said maybe the guitar can do that. So the guitar does that. Oh okay, but the who’s doing the guitar? Mmm, maybe the violin. Just put a distortion pedal on the violin, we can do that. So just change and exchange. And then I play guitar, so I can help Rikard a little bit. Claire can play guitar. Everybody can play, you’ll see.
Colin: Certain melody lines get covered by different players.
Alberto: Absolutely.
Colin: So therefore, the songs must take on a little bit of a different aspect live. They won’t really be as just per the studio version?
Alberto: That’s the goal I think, because if I go to see… I don’t know, I mean, I love Coldplay right. But if you go to a Coldplay gig, it’s like listening to the album. So why am I paying a hundred, well more than a hundred pounds to just listen to the album. I could just stay home, in my chair, with a nice drink, playing the music, and it’s cleaner. I can go for a beer and pause the concert (said laughing). The live version needs to be different from the studio version. You need to put something more, or less sometimes. And it’s good. It’s a unique situation, and there will be mistakes. There will be something funny that happens.
Colin: But that makes it fun, it makes it human.
Alberto: Absolutely.
Colin: And it stops every night just feeling the same.
Alberto: Sometimes you are really, really focused on the perfection. But I mean, perfection is the enemy of good.
Colin: If the vibe is right. I’ve seen bands before where they’ve criticised their own performance, didn’t think they did well. But in fact the vibe in the room was brilliant.
Alberto: I think it’s like 80%, it’s the vibe. If you are having fun on stage, people can feel it. That’s it. If the emotion is arriving to the people that pay for the tickets to be there, they need to get given emotion. If they just wanted the album, they can buy it. We need emotion. We need to just give whatever you have. That’s the goal I think.
Colin: Your current setlist that you’ve chosen. How hard it is to pick a setlist when you have such a big back-catalogue of music? Knowing that by pulling certain songs out, you’ll disappoint certain people, and so on.
Alberto: The problem is that we have like 15 minute songs. So if you cut a 15 minute song, you have to put another three songs in it. So making the setlist, it’s a really difficult task. In the past we tried to change the setlist every night, having 4 or 5 songs out of the set list just put it in randomly, and just change everything. But we had the situation where there were people on the second night that said, “oh, they didn’t play that. I’m really angry” (said laughing). So this time we chose to have one setlist, that’s the setlist… we’re playing that setlist. And it really helped the band to have the flow of the night. So you know what’s coming.
Colin: You can pace yourself for certain songs.
Alberto: You know where to relax. You just have your balance between songs, and you know that “alright, I need to think about the next song”, you have the time, you can adjust stuff. And every night you can remember more. It’s easier to remember when you made mistakes, because you do it every night. So, “okay, alright, so I had to remember there”. I need to do that.
Colin: The new live album/Blu-ray release has just come out, A Flare On The Lens. It’s actually a snapshot from a year ago.
Alberto: Yeah, seems 20 years ago.
Colin: I was just going to ask, even though it’s just come out, to you it must feel like ages. Do you feel the band has developed a lot since then?
Alberto: Oh my God, yes, it’s another universe. Absolutely. Well, that performance, I think it’s really good. We were in a really good mood there. We were really happy to play those two shows in London. It was an incredible experience, we really enjoyed it. But, in another way, now we actually have just played more… together. We know each other better, and we played in the US, we played the festivals, we played a few shows before now. It’s always going better and better and better.
Colin: I suppose if you are doing the file-sharing where you are all writing music in different countries, but then when you’re actually playing together, there’s a certain chemistry that starts, doesn’t it? Which is totally different from sending each other files.
Alberto: I don’t want to spoil anything, but we are playing tonight and for this tour, we’re playing like a really old song.
Colin: Yes, I’ve seen the setlist from previous shows (said laughing)
Alberto: Yeah, so it’s The Last English King from the Bard album, that was done with a completely other band. So there was no David involved, there was nobody. So we said “okay, we need to do this in another way”, and decided on a completely new arrangement. I did like a sort of an idea of an arrangement. I sent it to the to everybody, they were cool with it, but I said “leave it open and we will see what happens in the rehearsal room, we’ll figure it out”. And actually it changed completely.
Colin: So it’s very different to the recorded studio version?
Alberto: It’s very different to the original, and very different from my demo idea. We just developed the song together, just bouncing ideas, “oh, we can do this. Alright, cool, let’s just do it”. And you cannot do that with email. Because if I need to “oh, can we change this note?”, it’s like 3 weeks of waiting (said laughing).
Colin: If it was possible, it would be really nice if the whole band could get together in a rehearsal studio, even if just for a week, just to crash some ideas and jam together.
Alberto: That’s what we are trying to do, for the future, of course. It’s difficult. But we are trying to do that. The next album will have the idea of being in a room together, rehearse together, and then record the album as a live performance. Yes, that is the idea. If we have the opportunity, of course, to do it, we will never go back to the remote recording.
Colin: Another thing I wanted to ask was about the history of the band. Originally started about 1990. I think this has got to be one of the most slowest burning bands ever, when you consider it took so long to start touring. And now, you are probably more popular and well-known than the band has been in its history of … 34 years! (said laughingly)
Alberto: I think it was more of like a niche band, sort of like, um. I don’t know… an underground band. Then, of course, with The Underfall Yard, and then English Electric, those albums they just …arrived to all the prog people. Not only the prog people, maybe further. But now I think we have a good position in the Prog world where we are well-known.
Colin: Well, by being invited to play Cruise To The Edge …
Alberto: Yeah, well, that helped.
Colin: It’s a nice validation
Alberto: It is. It’s an honour just to be there. I’ve been there with PFM. I’ve played twice at the Cruise. But then, being there with ‘my’ band (said very proudly).
Colin: I love the story that Greg has told about how you came into his mind, because he’d been to see PFM. He said that he heard your voice and thought I’ll just make a note, he didn’t even know your name, and wrote down “keys/singer from PFM”, and had you in mind for a solo album, or something? And I think that’s such a great story.
Alberto: It is. It is an incredible story, and that was like in 2015.
Colin: Nice that he remembered you after all that time.
Alberto: He never contacted me back then, because yes, it was like a solo album idea, or something like that. But that was never done. Sometime after David, after that situation, he just wrote to me on Facebook, they were auditioning people. And I was just in his mind. I remember the message was something like “Hello, I’m Gregory from Big Big Train. Are you aware of the band?”. And I said “Yes, I know who you are” (both of us laughing). So yeah, it was a surprise, of course. I didn’t have expectations. I mean, I just did the best that I could, but I had no idea.
Colin: But the fact you’ve actually got quite a bit of a material on The Likes Of Us that you’ve written. That is so good of Greg and the band to open the doors and say come on board with your ideas.
Alberto: That is like the greatest thing in the band. That everybody can do whatever they feel to do, in a really, really open way, very freely. So everybody can put an idea on the table.
Colin: One last quick question before you have to get away. Progressive music, it seems to have no limitations. Musical genres suddenly change mid song, tempos change, song length rules… out of the window, the song can be as long as you want. So how do you know when a song is finished? Like an artist painting, then saying “there’s enough paint on the canvas. Now it’s time to stop”. How do you do that? Is it a gut instinct?
Alberto: No, I think it I think it’s always wrong. It’s always wrong, I’m like listening to the songs, finished on the album and thinking “oh fuck, maybe I should have changed that”. I think it’s a universal thing. It’s normal for every songwriter, or every musician, to think “NO …WHY?” (said laughing). But again, the perfection thing, you need to leave it at home and just go with the flow. If it feels right, it just feels right. When we recorded vocals for the album, it was me and Greg in the studio. We were crying like babies during the recording, because it was so emotional, so good. So, I mean, you feel it, you just feel it.
Colin: So if you get that sort of goose-bump moment, you know it’s right.
Alberto: Yeah, music needs the goose-bump moments (said laughingly)
Colin: Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated. And I hope the rest of the tour goes really well.
Alberto: Thank you very much guys.
So now you’ll likely be thinking, well, how was the gig?. Well just follow this LINK and all will be revealed 🙂
I must give a huge thank you to the tour manager for Big Big Train, Graham Collins, for agreeing to, and arranging time for this interview to take place. It’s is massively appreciated. And of course to Alberto for not only being such an easy person to interview, but for also being a genuinely lovely guy, who was an absolute pleasure to talk to. Thanks also to Chris Simmons for taking a few photos during the course of the interview.
LINKS
Big Big Train – Website | Facebook (Group) | Bandcamp | YouTube | X